Sustainability from Childhood is InCreativeCo's new series aimed at exploring the relationship between our connection to nature as children and our dedication to our natural world, environmental strategists, mechanical engineers, herbalists and foragers speak their truth to power and together create a collection of imaginative and practical proposals for the action that we need in this moment of climate catastrophe.

Listen to Latoya Ramos chat with Gillian Rappaport, Evan Landau, and Mackenzie Beth about his experiences with sustainability.

Together we create a collection of imaginative and practical proposals for the action that we need in this moment of climate catastrophe.

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Video Transcript

Latoya Ramos: I'm very fascinated by water and the ocean one because of just the ebbs and flows, the waves, its tranquility that the tranquility that it provides, but also, it's so powerful.

Gilian Rappaport: Welcome to the sustainability from childhood audio series initiated by Gillian Rapoport and commissioned by In Creative Company. Sustainability from childhood explores the relationship between our connection to nature as children, and our dedication to our natural world. Environmental strategists, mechanical engineers, herbalists and foragers speak their truth to power and together create a collection of imaginative and practical proposals for the action that we need in this moment of climate catastrophe. Join us as we explore what messages about climate possibility do we need to share with our communities now?

Gilian Rappaport: All right, Latoya, thank you so much for joining me today to talk about sustainability in the land.

Latoya Ramos: Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah, I'm really thrilled to be able to have this conversation with you and just hear a little bit more about your work. Since I know you've been thinking a lot about sustainability and how that impacts us and how we communicate about ourselves, and how that sort of shapes the way that we, the messages that are important for us to be sharing today and the nuances of this thing. So yeah, just really grateful for you making the time today to have this conversation. 

Latoya Ramos: Oh, likewise, glad to be here. 

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah. So first, let me share a little bit about your studio and your podcast.

Latoya Ramos: Yeah, so I'm the founder of Pluvrichor, which is a sustainability strategy and brand strategy studio. I started it about two years ago, off of the fact that I really wanted to focus on not only brand strategy, but sustainability communications, in general, I realized that there was a huge, huge need within the space, when it came to messaging around sustainability, as the space is already quite scientific, we needed to really focus on the creative side of the space as well and how we communicate that and Susty Soul is a podcast that I started two years ago as well, almost three years ago now, which highlights people of color that work within sustainability. So whether it's entrepreneurships, farmers, tech folks, just really amplify voices of color within the space a nd that was a huge passion of mine after finishing a graduate program. So so yeah. 

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“So yeah, just really grateful for you making the time today to have this conversation.” - Latoya Ramos

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Science of Sustainability🧪

Gilian Rappaport: Oh, wow. That's so exciting. It's really important work. As you know, I'm so curious to hear you talk a little bit more about what you were saying about all of the science being out there around sustainability and feeling compelled to work on the creative side of that. Can you share a little bit more about that? 

Latoya Ramos: Yes, sure. So when I first started, what first led me into the sustainability space was the fashion industry. So naturally, I am creative. I started out as a designer, so I will be relaunching that soon. But what led me into that, and it was around the time when the Rana Plaza collapse happened and that led me into the whole world of not only sustainable, sustainable fashion, but also just climate, and all the problems that we know about today. So when it came to learning about all of the operations, emissions, LCA, supply, chain, toxicity, and all of those, all of the things, it was just, I was just kind of like, okay, I know how to do all these things. I know how to address all these problems.

So what are we really doing in terms of the marketing side of this? Like, how are we really communicating these problems to consumers when we talk about consumption, and when we talk about the problem itself, consumers have a big role, but sometimes we don't know what to do, because things are being marketed to us. So how can brands and how can organizations communicate the importance of, you know, consumption, and sustainability and waste, basically, in a way that's educational and informative, but also digestible? Consumers don't like to be talked at, they need to be informed and educated, but also sort of understood that. It's hard to be sustainable. It's hard to solve all these problems at once and we don't want to make consumers feel like they need, you know, like, it's their fault, right? We want to say, “Hey, we as an organization, we have our responsibility in this and then the consumer also has their responsibility.”

How can we do this together, and that's where communications and the creative side comes in and that was something I was particularly passionate about also, again, as a creative by nature, like art and communicating sustainability, not only through marketing, but also through art, sensory experiences, fashion and things like that and I think there's just so many different approaches and ideas around collaboration and just different ways that we can talk about these problems and really solve problems as well. 

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“So how can brands and how can organizations communicate the importance of, you know, consumption, and sustainability and waste, basically, in a way that's educational and informative, but also digestible?” - Latoya Ramos

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Message of Togetherness🤝

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah. Thank you so much for saying that. I really love what you're saying about being in this together, you know, as a company and as a consumer, just putting forward these messages of this is this really daunting, this really daunting time and we're in the middle of this crisis, and we're on this journey together. Can you have any sort any more to share about that particular kind of message or examples? Or anything that you could share more around that message of togetherness?

Latoya Ramos: Yes. So sustainable brands? I think it was, I think it was in 2020, they released a full report that I still read now, it was essentially around collaborations and the importance of collaborations in terms of sustainability. So I would say that's like, my biggest sort of example at the moment, because they really sort of like go, they basically just dig deep into like, the why of collaborations and why we really do need to focus on partnerships and also just that sense of togetherness, as organizations, and as brands and also, from an employer branding perspective, just really making organizations understand we need to collaborate. Because when you put different powers together, that's when you can really create change, because there's a lot of people and smaller organizations doing a lot of great things in the world, but they can't do it all alone.

So when you come together, you can definitely increase your impact and while that does sound, you know, a little bit Frou Frou like yeah, increase your impact, you know, expand but it's just, it's, it's true because when you bring a lot of differences just like when you think about a great team, right? You bring all of these superheroes into just one team, and they just create this amazing product, product project or whatever it is, or presentation, whatever you whatever, you know, it might be. But that's one example that I really resonated with and sort of confirmed my thoughts and concerns around the whole problem that we have now and also thinking about circularity as well. And behavior change in general is that collaboration is a huge part of that.

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah. So I'm curious also to hear you talk a little bit about your experience, can you can you talk a little bit about like the importance of talking about like metrics, and things like degree of temperature increase on the earth or alignment to like policy agreements, like the Paris climate agreements, like, how important is it for brands, to not only be talking about a message of, for example, togetherness and collaboration, but also getting into these more concrete details of exactly how their products and programs measure up to these broader policy goals?

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Concrete Details📝

Latoya Ramos: Yeah, and I think a big thing now is that it's a good thing that more and more consumers really do care about this, and they want this information from brands. So I think brands definitely need to invest more and more into a sustainability team and building that out or really just collaborating with a sustainability consultancy because when you meet when you gather all of this data, you need to sort of like make it created it in a way that's digestible for consumers. So when it comes to things like infographics and video, and some different just different forms of media, where you can communicate those numbers, you can communicate the stats, you can communicate the research, you can even have, you know, scientists come on and you know, discuss like what's going on, but in a way that's digestible to their consumers and, you know, for different brands, their consumers different. So how do you currently talk to your consumers?

How have you currently engaged them, and just thinking about how you can sort of shift that in a way to sort of like, you know, communicate a different type of message, but in, but that's under your brand, right? That's in the same brand voice that has the same tone, but that sort of speaks to these very real things and he's very concrete that has these very concrete details about what's going on dependent, and that also depends on the type of organization as well, like, what is their specialty? What are they known for? What are they a leader in? And how can you sort of strengthen that with the numbers, but just do everything in a way that speaks to their brand as well.

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah. So what do you have some examples of, like, those different kinds of expertise?

Latoya Ramos: Yeah, so some examples, I would say, in terms of that I liked what Nike has been doing. They're sort of like sustainability efforts in Adidas or Adidas. Some people say different things, but I bring them up because they've done some really great collaborations. Like, for instance, I know Adidas did a really good collaboration that still resonates with me as they collaborated with Parley for the Oceans and it was this sort of very immersive experience and they had like a lot of like, footage with, you know, obviously ocean plastics and things like that, but just sort of like also talking about the story of the whales and you know, just just just looking at animals in their habitat and sea turtles and things like that, but also just saying like,

Okay, this is why we need to pull these things out of the ocean and make your sneakers and when you buy our sneakers, you know, you're helping us do that. So I would say that is one really sort of large example from you know, considering that is a very large and powerful organization with, you know, capital and the ability to do that and hire the right people to bring this forward. But that was a great example of something like that, for sure. 

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah, thank you. I'm also wondering, I mean, you, you were talking in the beginning about just the importance of bringing a creative approach to sustainability stories and I'm wondering if there are other brands that you're paying attention to, that you feel are doing storytelling well in the space? 

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Brands to Know🧁

Latoya Ramos: Well, in this space, yeah, off the top of my head, I actually I've really been, I actually have their products, I use their toilet paper company called Reel, Reel Paper, CO, I really love the story behind their brands, which is essentially just, you know, providing like proper hygiene for other developed countries and also just really helping customers understand that your toilet paper matters, the quality and where it goes, and how much we how much of it we use. But it's also really, it's also in a way, sort of like a luxury type of brand as well and that's something that I think is important to include in the sustainability conversation.

Because when we think about luxury and perceptions of luxury, we have to understand that when a consumer reviews something when a consumer believes that something is very, very special and when a consumer either pays more for something, because they think especially if there's a sense of novelty around a product, you then do have a little bit more of a customer buying engagement and sort of like reverence for that brand for that particular product and you're not so quick to throw it away, you know, outside of, you know, toilet tissue, right, but just something that you might keep around the house or, you know, clothing, right, we it's, it's one of those things luxury has been, I think luxury and the pursuit in the sense of luxury and our definition of luxury is something that has to be included, when we talk about creativity within sustainability and branding, because it's really important and I think it's a really important gateway into how we are going to shift consumer behavior, we have to look at novelty and luxury, and how we see that and you know, that's different for different people, it means different things for different brands and different communities.

But there is something to be said about it. There's a lot of articles out there starting to pop up about this, particularly within the fashion industry, sort of like going back to capsule collections and made to order types of models. But yeah, this this, the conversation around luxury, and sustainability is something that is really, it makes me happy to see it. But it's really starting to be mentioned a lot because even when you think about the De Graaff concept, these are, they're not creative concepts, but they're different and I think that is something that's kind of like the intersection of like, when we talk about solving problems. It's just like at the intersection of doing something very different, something that's really unprecedented, but also being creative and thinking more creatively and that way to just do things very differently. So yeah, I think that, uh, yeah, I know that was a little bit long winded.

Gilian Rappaport: I love that I appreciate I really love that, I guess we're so I'm going to assume we have people that are going to tune in that might not know what the degrowth mindset is, do you want to share a little about that? 

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“Because when we think about luxury and perceptions of luxury, we have to understand that when a consumer reviews something when a consumer believes that something is very, very special.” - Latoya Ramos

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Growth Mindset🌱

Latoya Ramos: Yeah, so I'm still wanting more and more about it. But it's essentially just things in the opposite way. So instead of thinking about scaling your company, and expanding and growing and you know, selling, you know, eventually selling your company, just thinking more like internally and more in thinking thinking in the way that's more sustainable for your business and being like a smaller, sort of more ingrained and grounded business versus trying to grow and thinking about growth and scale.

So just sort of like doing the opposite of that and really focusing on your product, the communities that you impact your human capital, and also just your organization in general and seeing how you can focus more on impact versus scale, and versus sort of like expansion. So just doing the opposite of that. So that's essentially that's a very light version definition of it. But it is still fairly a fairly new concept and in terms of popularity, but it is still evolving and a lot of people are adopting this mindset and I think it's great.

I just think, I also think that it's scary especially for a lot of larger businesses, because they're just like, how do we, how do we embrace degrowth? Like, what, what does this mean for us? So you know, but I do think it's important to consider newer businesses, when they think about these things. Because if we, if we keep consuming, if we continue to extract from the planet from you know, humans on a scale, that's unsustainable, that's not healthy, we're not going to really improve anything. So the concept of degrowth is sort of like what kind of like, in a way what the world is kind of like coming to, in a sense in terms of the way we do business.

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah, thank you for that. It's so helpful as a just concept for all of us to think about, I think, and also specifically in the realm of climate. I've heard people talk about the idea that like the necessity to speak to the climate I mean, but it's also an economic opportunity, right? Like, it's about the people, it's about the planet and it's also about profit, because it's this incredible moment for innovation and imagination and like getting out of our mental rut and moving into a new way of thinking and a new way of behaving. That's long overdue, obviously. But that's also this huge opportunity and so thinking about not growth in terms of this exponential growth, but in terms of reforming ourselves, so that we can be more effective while using less. 

Latoya Ramos: Yes, exactly. 

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah. And so yeah, I'm curious, since your someone who operates a consultancy, do you prioritize categories? Like, you know, electric cars or land use? Or like specific kinds of categories that are, you know, that are really doing things differently in the kinds of clients that you're pursuing? Or do you feel like you put equal weight on, you know, businesses that may not be reimagining it in that same way, but are maybe, you know, working with, you know, natural materials and things like that?

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Prioritizing Categories 🥳

Latoya Ramos: Yeah. So for me, what I most what I mostly focus on and pursue is fashion companies and apparel brands and newer brands that are popping up where it's just like they either have a fashion focus or their mission base, but mostly fashion, because that's just my world, I adore the fashion industry, starting a new brands relaunching of random within the fashion industry always been my love and that's where I can, I can be the most genuine, because there's a true interest there and also, I do believe, as a consultant, and brand strategist, I think there's so much truth in that for me, and I think that's important for any sort of independent consultant to really consider when they work with people is that there should also be a genuine interest there outside of curiosity. So most of it is in fashion and I would say the other half has definitely been just a mix of people who are very mission aligned, and they just need someone they just need a little bit of their hand holding, when it comes to sustainability.

It's just like, “Okay, we've never really focused on this in our organization. So we just need someone who can sort of like help us with some research, who can just sort of like guide us and just like, where do you think we should do? Should we get the certification? Should we get that certification? Should we do materiality assessment” So I would just sort of like guide them through that really help them sort of like a sort of just a line with like, the thing that they want to do and inform them of how hard it's going to be. I was talking to a colleague with another colleague before, and she's also a consultant, but she focuses more on emissions and climate technology and she was just saying that a lot of clients that, you know, they come to us with, you know, trying to solve this problem. But we're always disappointed when we let them know that it's actually going to be a lot harder than you think.

Because it's not just this very sort of top level greenwashing type of thing that you just want to put out and the intent is there, companies don't tend to do well, they just don't know how to do it yet and sometimes, because of, you know, how a lot of consumers are demanding this information and holding companies accountable. A lot of companies feel drawn to just put something out, you know, and, and, and while that can be done, it's just like you have you still have to be honest, and a lot of companies are not being honest about it.

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah, yeah. How can you tell when a company isn't being honest?

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Company Honesty😎

Latoya Ramos: Yeah. So when, so you know, you have the sort of first interaction, and then you get on the call, and you they give you sort of, like, I guess, if they, you know, submit like a form the intake form or whatever, and they give you a brief of what they might need you for and what they're looking for, and then you get on the call, but then it's just like this whole other thing, like, “yeah, we're just trying to do this, and we just need someone to put this out.” And it's just, it's very nonchalant, sort of like, “Yeah, this is something we have to do”, versus “we're really trying to shift things internally and we don't know what to do and we need guidance” and that's the difference. You know, there's sort of like, true intention and genuine sort of approach to say, like, “hey, we don't know what to do” and that's honest, and but versus, like, “yeah, we just want to do this.

We just need someone to write this for us. You know, here's what we've done before. Maybe you can make something out or something like that.” And I typically don't work with people like that. I do give them sort of I give them recommendations on what they might consider want to consider and how they could couldn't work with me just to really dig deeper and really hone in on what they would be able to do as a company, depending on their industry, depending on their strength as a brand because different types of brands can do very different things they have, you know, whether it's their leader in a certain space, whether it's capital, they might have a lot of capital. To really create change, so just helping them sort of along that path, at first is just like, yeah, really try to really get clear on what their intentions are from whether it's a project or program, or just an entire strategy. 

Gilian Rappaport: So how, at what point in the process usually, are you aligning around sustainability goals with your clients? So is it something that you do before you begin the brand strategy process?

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Aligning Sustainability Goals with Clients💯

Latoya Ramos: Yeah, I do it with almost every project and like different services, like SDG alignment is very, very important. Also, because the UN has so many resources like under each SDG, where brands and people can just really sort of utilize free resources that people can utilize to at least start on that journey. So I always do STG alignment, because it's really helpful for not only for brands to focus on what they're trying to do, but it's important for us, it's important to help them see the potential, basically, of what they can do, and that there is room for creativity in that, you know, there's so many types of organizations they could partner with or, you know, collaborate with, depending on whatever industry that they're in, there's so much room for that.

But I think because sustainability can feel very scientific because it is, it can feel intimidating to a lot of organizations, on top of the fact that a lot of organizations are scared to be called out on something, they're, they're scared to be accused of greenwashing. With that I think the SDGs provide a really nice sort of like, a very robust layout and they provide a lot of resources for organizations to sort of like work with before coming to whether or not they work with me. It's always something that they can sort of like us and say, “okay, look, let's just start here and then let's try to figure something out.” So whether or not they work with me, I definitely bring up the SDG alignment. 

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah, when you go through that process, you usually have a rough sense for sort of, obviously the industry, they're most likely in fashion, but sort of like their most attainable goals within that framework. 

Latoya Ramos: Yes. So what I typically do is I look at what the organization does, well look at their strengths, all of the things like what do you do really well, like, what are you known for? And how can we amplify what is not changed and not make this whole new version of the company or anything like that? Just what do you do really well? And how can you duplicate that the branding in the brand, and who they are as a brand, and really amplify that within the sustainability space, and just figuring out what they can do. So there's a lot of exploration there, there's a lot of creativity there, research as well. But like, Okay, wait, you know, maybe we can do this, this has never been done before, maybe we can create a thought leadership piece around that, you know, because we have this we have A, B, and C, so let's utilize the tools that we have this little to utilize the resources that we have, and really just sort of invest in creating something, whatever that may be, program, whatever it might be, just something that they can really, truly, truly, truly create change, if they just like really reground themselves in and what they're really good as a brand.

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah and, um, what do you generally feel operationally in order to enact those changes? Have you seen any sort of consistency and like, you know, you feel like people always need to bring on or businesses always end up needing to bring on this kind of person, or they always need to create this sort of like cadence timing to review and check in on their goals, or any sort of like operational change that goes along with trying to align with these goals.

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"But like, Okay, wait, you know, maybe we can do this, this has never been done before, maybe we can create a thought leadership piece around that, you know, because we have this we have A, B, and C, so let's utilize the tools that we have.” - Latoya Ramos

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Enacting the Change🤺

Latoya Ramos: Yes, so a big part of depending on how big the brand is, or organization is presented with different versions. So some organizations I've worked with don't have a sustainability team or anything like that. So it's just like me, sort of like being the main point of contact, I sort of like having to create that sort of cadence, whether it's a monthly meeting, or bi weekly, or whatever that might be. But I also, there's also situations where they would have an internal sustainability team, but they're not doing much, if that makes any sense. It's just they're kind of like there for show and you see that a lot in a lot of those sort of, like bigger organizations, even when you have that the sustainability team isn't communicating with any of the other teams.

They're just like, it's like this hub there. It was like, yeah, the sustainability team doesn't really talk to the marketing team and they don't really talk to legal people, they sometimes don't talk like the engineering team, but depending on what it is, it's kind of like that. So really just sort of like diagnosing, like what's really going on within on the inside and I think that's kind of like where my HR background kind of comes in handy to understand organizations and how organizations work internally and how to get things done and to do some sort of like internal communications, and then being comfortable doing that or just helping whoever I'm working with, communicate that to the other teams and is really getting clear on like, you know, the goal and what we're trying to do with this particular thing that we're working on to really just it encourage the team to do it. But you know, sometimes it seems like I really have a choice. They have to be on the team, but just really presenting a mission that speaks to what the organization is trying to do and making sure that all the teams feel included in something like this, because it can be a hit or a miss. So but you do see that a lot with a lot of organizations. Yeah, just the larger ones. 

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah. Thank you for that. That makes a lot of sense. I can see how it would require, you know, shifts in the way that businesses communicate internally, with what between different teams and also between other businesses as well. Let's see, I was thinking, I've had this other question. I'm just really curious people who are drawn to working with climate or sustainability, I'm curious to hear about like a really personal meaningful experience that you've had, with a piece of land a specific site or a garden, a specific landscape, or any anything that that comes to mind that that you feel may be part of what is driving you to want to do this work. Like, I understand that obviously this has roots in the fashion industry for you also being someone with a design background, and just seeing like, like practically, what's happening in the industry and the changes that need to be made. I'm also wondering if there's like a deeper sense of connection to the earth and a specific site that you are willing to share a little bit about?

Latoya Ramos: Yeah, so in terms of the Earth, I'm definitely gonna have to say, rain. I'm very, I'm what's considered a pluvial file, which is part of like, why would I name my studio after the rain, to me is a big deal because if it represents rain, in water, in general, it's healing. It also has the power to destroy and it's part of the natural cycle of the earth. Right. So that's something that has always kept me inspired when it comes to sustainability and just natural resources in nature in general, one, a specific site, I think, I don't know. I love gardens. I actually want to start my own soon. But a specific site I have to,

Gilian Rappaport: Is there a specific site of water that you're referring to, like when you talk about the rain? Or? I know you wrote a little bit about the ocean?

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“I'm just really curious about who people are drawn to working with climate or sustainability?” - Latoya Ramos

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The Rain☂️

Latoya Ramos: Right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I love the beach. Anytime I go away, I love being near the water and always go to the beach. I like I typically, if I have the opportunity to like to meditate on the beach, or just like stare at it, because it's just I'm very fascinated by water and the ocean one because of just the ebbs and flows, the waves, you know, many communities, you know, worship the ocean, to see the ocean as a god deity was, you know, religious figure, I love the ocean. It's just, I think, again, because of the it's tranquility, the tranquility that it provides, but also, it's so powerful. It can, you know, it can wipe us out, you know, it can, it has the power, you know, whether or not we live or die, and as it gets dark or anything, but we need water to survive.

You know, it's literally in my mind, like a whole just a very holy part of our world and it's such a necessary part of our world, especially when we think about water scarcity now and how there's so many people who still don't have access to fresh clean water and it's just like, it's just like this recurring theme, you know, as humans, obviously, we need water but it's something I've just I'm just always really, really inspired by so I would definitely have to say the ocean. 

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah, thank you so much. I can really feel it in the way that you describe. And especially what you said about just, you know, the bigness of it and how it can totally destroy us and I really love that alongside what you said earlier about rain.

Latoya Ramos: And I also love it. I'll never forget. I always love seeing things like, I don't know if you've ever seen rain coming towards you like a flood pouring down rain coming towards you from a distance. Anytime I see that I'm just like completely. It's just so amazing. But yeah, this is why I'm pluvial five because I just really love the rain. I just love it so much. It's cleansing. It's mysterious. Yeah, it has meaning both good and bad. There's just this fascination I have with the rain and appreciation for not only the rain because we need that for natural resources and soil and plants but obviously for us as humans, but yeah, we just we also need it for cleansing as well.

“I'll never forget. I always love seeing things like, I don't know if you've ever seen rain coming towards you like a flood pouring down rain coming towards you from a distance. Anytime I see that I'm just like completely. It's just so amazing.” - Latoya Ramos

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Gilian Rappaport: Yeah, this is kind of what I'm wondering, do you know about any stories that capture the rain, like the magic of the rain or the power of the rain or the oceans So in ways that you resonate with?

Latoya Ramos: Yeah, I'm African American, but there is an I don't. I'm not. I don't pry it. I think it's European culture. And then also thinking about African deities, there's one duty called the ocean and also, yerba culture also does a lot of their spiritual work next to the water. So I would say, those that for me, learning about that, and understanding that because I grew up a Christian, and there's a lot of overlapping themes, which is not surprising to that.

So in terms of stories, I would say, learning about that and just learning about how different communities surround their spiritual practice around water, even when we talk, think about myself ignorant, but I think when rain dancing, I think for Native American culture, as well, so it's just like this. I'm just really fascinated about it also, for me, the story is just like learning about the other stories of communities that worship the rain or have some sort of a spiritual practice around the rain that's really just really piqued my curiosity, and fascination and that fascination, just like, “Oh, that's cool.” It's just like, no, it's just, I just want to learn more and learn about this and the why. And you have an interest in it. So yeah, that's what I would say. 

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah, I thank you so much. Do you have one? Do you know of any resources where you can learn about stories like this? It's just occurring to me right now.

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Story Resource Advice📖

Latoya Ramos: For me, no. Not off the top of my head. I actually don't, I normally just like Google personally, that's how I've been doing it. There are some books that I have come across. I can't think I'm looking at my bookshelf honestly, no, not off the top of my head, not about rain, specifically. But I don't know if you ever heard about a book called Braiding Sweetgrass.

Gilian Rappaport: Oh, yeah, I love that. 

Latoya Ramos: Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's off the top of my head. That's like a book that when it comes to natural resources, and things like that, and tying it to sustainability and spirituality is yeah, that's what kind of pops up. So books like that. But I've also just, you know, just found them I think, like everyone else, just through interest, and curiosity, and just looking things up.

Gilian Rappaport: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Just curious since it came up. All right. Well, I think we're nearing the end. Is there anything else that you want to share? Or that you feel we didn't discuss? As much as you'd like to share? Now?

Latoya Ramos: I will say no, thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate it. In terms of other things I've got going on, you know, I have the brand strategy studio, I'm creating and rebuilding a small perfume line and apparel brands. So these are all focused on sustainability and circularity and are in reverence for our natural resources in the way we consume things. But other than that, yeah, I'm just I'm very appreciative to have been on and thank you. I appreciate it. For sure.

Gilian Rappaport: My Pleasure. And thank you so much for taking the time out of your very busy day, I'm sure. Yeah.

Latoya Ramos: It's fine. It's totally fine.

Gilian Rappaport: I'm really grateful. This is a really helpful and inspiring conversation. So thank you so much.

Latoya Ramos: Thank you, talk soon. 

Elaine Gazzard: And when you smell something, you can't really be too engaged in the outside world. It's very intimate with ourselves. And it's a nice way to help me shut it off for a moment.

Evan Landau: How, can you turn that into something that's productive? Instead of damaging? Why can't we just take everyone's garbage and turn it to something else? Why can't we have things that people consume? Can we have those be beneficial to the environment as well.

Latoya Ramos: I'm very fascinated by water and the ocean one because of just the ebbs and flows the waves is tranquility that the tranquility that it provides, but also, it's so powerful.

Mackenzie Beth: Yes, we have the capacity to do great harm to the planet. But we also have the same capacity, if not more capacity to do good to create to add value to make a positive impact on our surroundings and so let's actually learn the skills.

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